advantages of xpath over css

When you don’t know the name of an element, you can use. This long post has two sections - first I'll put a back-of-the-napkin proof the performance difference between the two is 0.1-0.3 milliseconds (yes; that's 100 microseconds), and then I'll share my opinion why XPath is more powerful. Not being able to traverse the DOM with CSS in older browsers isn't necessarily a bad thing. Along the way, we’ll talk about what each of the options brings to the table. Hence this is the major advantage of Relative XPath Expressions over Absolute XPath Expressions, where the Expression is reliable and not changing on performing small changes on the UI. With such a divide it can be hard to determine the best approach for you and your team. These cookies do not store any personal information. There are plenty of such signs depending on the rules you’re using for selection. Consider a CSS selector as that part of the style sheet that allows you to pick out the type of content to either test, edit, or copy. The battle of XPath vs CSS Selector is one that people approach differently—mostly because of preferences rather than the various…. Implying in the context of the advantages and disadvantages of CSS talked about above, it is fair to establish that advantages of CSS dawn over the disadvantages of CSS. All Selenium "best practices" guides I've seen so far advised to prefer CSS over XPATH. To test the differences between CSS and XPath we will use two sets of tests. In Css we rewrite them as css=a:contains('Forgot'), which will find the first anchor that contains 'Forgot'. : 3) HTML is not case sensitive. You’ll also learn why one or the other can be a better option to use when testing your applications. This is surprising since it is the main reason cited in favor of CSS. Page Objects) then leveraging a hybrid approach is simple to implement. As with most repetitive processes, artificial intelligence is beginning to affect both options. No need to change any code. XML path syntax uses tree diagram type flows to locate elements on an HTML page. XPath in Selenium WebDriver is used to find an element on the web page. One of the most heated and subjective conversations in the Selenium community is which locator strategy is better, often circling around two -- XPath and CSS. Firefox 26 | 22 seconds | 22 seconds While the prior is more precise, the latter is more accurate since it demonstrates an end-to-end workflow. Also, if you use Testim, working on the front end when creating automated tests also makes it easy to deploy products faster. Here is the link which provides performance stats for reference. CSS selectors come last when you ask the question, “What are all the locators do you use frequently and why?” XPath tops the list as one size fits all solution. Advantages. We and selected partners, use cookies or similar technologies to provide our services, to personalize content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyze our traffic, both on this website and through other media, as further detailed in our. We’ll discuss the syntax in greater depth shortly. Often, it is also lack of exposure to CSS … Testim will look at class, parent/child, color, text, type, ID, or other attributes and find the item for you to run your tests. For our example application we will use a page with two HTML data tables. Name. DOM stands for ‘Document Object Model’. For example if there is a site where we can select an item only by text because the other type of locators are not clear(id’s and classes are generated and they are used in multiple places). Then you’d replace the * with a $. And if you're thinking of switching over from XPath, but unsure of how to go about it, check out the nifty tool Santi wrote called cssify. The selector applicable for finding specific elements in the above example would look like this. Below I am explaining the one techniques used for finding the element in the web page- XPath: It is used for finding the element in the web page, we can write customized XPath or we can simply get a XPath using the fire path. When DOM is used to define the logical structure of a XML document, we call the DOM as XML DO… XPath engines are different in each browser, hence make them inconsistent more dense and complex pages), but it's not readily apparent -- and I'm skeptical that it would make a substantial impact (e.g. In that case, you’d use the * sign after the href key. full xpath to submit button in form example, //section/startpage-component//div/main/search-box-component//div/form/div/button, //*[@id="scroll-container"]/main/search-box-component//div/form/div/button, End-to-end (E2E) testing helps with validating the most important flows in your application, such as user login requests. Here’s a shorter way to write this. While CSS selector and XPath are popular among Selenium users, CSS selector is highly recommended over XPath due to its simplicity, speed, and performance. And here’s a comprehensive table for the syntax of both XPath and CSS Selectors; Let’s use the same image that we did earlier, with a search page’s markup displayed. 2. Chrome 31 | 17 seconds | 16 seconds It uses expressions that navigate into an XML document in a way that can be traced from the start to the intended element—like forming a path from the start. Here are the advantages of using XSLT − Independent of programming. Let's cut through the noise by running our own performance tests across all major browsers to see how CSS and XPath stack up and fall down. You should be able to create the CSS selector just as we did with the XPath. 0 votes. #selectors Ideally, this would be run locally and the speed of each find element action would be measured and compared. At times there are different people at every stage, which makes things complicated. The results help illustrate and illuminate a couple of things. The following are the list of object identifier or locators supported by selenium. CSS is native to browsers and XPath is not; XPath can traverse up the document from a child element to parents. By the end of this course you will be able to create reliable, stable and complex Locators for locating UI elements on the web pages. : 4) So in order to choose one side or another let’s take a look at the pros and cons of each of them, but before we do that let’s understand each of them and what they can do. Almost each html parsing or web scraping related library has Xpath support. There are two types of XPath-Absolute XPath. Browser | CSS | XPath “There has to be a better way of implementing test automation!” you might say. Between By.XPath and By.ID, which is the better for locating , Selenium best practices mentions order of preference: id > name > css > xpath; Mozilla are preferred over XPath; slideshare compares locators (slide 23: CSS vs XPath) Try to depend on the HTML structure of the page as less as possible. Please provide your valuable suggestions highlighting the difference between these two technologies (XPath and css-selectors) in locating web elements. Adam Goucher's advice is to adopt a more hybrid approach -- focusing first on IDs, then CSS, and leveraging XPath only when you need it (e.g. This document can be a HTML document or XML document. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. He says he does this without hesitation because it's the right tool for the task, and that XPath will always be more powerful for advanced locators. the order of magnitude difference demonstrated by Santi in a presentation at the SF Selenium Meetup back in 2011). Here are some of the types. Advantages of using CSS: They are faster; In all Selenium best practices I've see so far, XPATH is always a last resort locator. Internet Explorer 8 | 23 seconds | 22 seconds It's a tough call to make. One of the most heated subject when choosing a selector strategy for an Automation Framework is always the CSS vs XPATH discussion. 2) HTML is a markup language itself. FireBug and FirePath Alternative tools for Locators Auto-generation. Such a negligible difference means that both options may be running neck-and-neck for you at this point. I will not show you the ins and outs of XPath and its rich syntax. Now, services such as Testim take care of that for you. Any cookies that may not be particularly necessary for the website to function and is used specifically to collect user personal data via analytics, ads, other embedded contents are termed as non-necessary cookies. Some other arguments in favor of CSS are that they are more readable, brief, and concise. People in favor of CSS say that it is more readable and faster (especially when running against Internet Explorer). To me it's more of an indicator that your page has poor design and could benefit from some helpful markup. This is mostly because unlike the tree or map build-up of the XPath option, selectors have actual names and categories. You can use fewer code-critical skills to iterate on the testing and feedback phase of a product’s development life cycle. There are two types of XPath: 1) Absolute & 2) Relative. And skipping any phase can doom an the application’s usability. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Today XPath expressions can also be used in JavaScript, Java, XML Schema, PHP, Python, C and C++, and lots of other languages. The CSS selectors identify the various elements in the DOM, and they affect or connect to these parts of the interface. Especially when most of these claims are outdated. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Similar to XPath Expressions, CSS Selectors are also one type of locators. Multiple selectors would also make it more complex to even use selectors in the first place. For starters there is no dramatic difference in performance between XPath and CSS. By the end of this article, which option you should use is likely to become clear to you even if you aren’t considering its compatibility with your use case. Chrome 31 | 24 seconds | 26 seconds DOM defines the logical structure of a document and the way document elements can be accessed and changed. People in favor of CSS say that it is more readable and faster (especially when running against Internet Explorer). The test code used can be seen here. In the next article, I will start explaining the next locator type ‘CSS Selectos’ from scratch and in detail. There are functions for string values, numeric values, booleans, date and time comparison, node manipulation, sequence manipulation, and much more. It’s at the testing stage you could start looking at the XPath vs CSS selector. The reason for choosing XPath over CSS is that they offer more power and functionalities. It’s compatible with most browsers to date. For the last installment, go here. Transformations are written in a separate xsl file which is again an XML document. Opera 12 | 25 seconds | 25 seconds There are cases when using XPath has some advantages over CSS selectors. It’s compatible with old browsers (or it was at time of publishing—including older versions of Internet Explorer, which some corporations still use). Consider our requirement is to create the partition based on date and then on user ID’s. It’s a more robust and powerful way to locate elements than css selectors. Before we get deeper into the logic of the choice, let’s define each side and learn their respective pros and cons. XPath stands for XML Path. Going from top to bottom within the resulting document and listing every node, until you reach the desired element, is what becomes the XPath. Is there any performance advantage of one over another? Traversing the DOM in older browsers like Internet Explorer 8 does not work with CSS but is fine with XPath. The Extensible Markup Language (XML) is the context in which the XML Path Language, XPath, exists. For the second installment, go here. I outline an approach in a previous tip under the heading "But What About Older Browsers?". Advantages of Using XPath. Firefox 26 | 27 seconds | 27 seconds from child to parent), whereas CSS can only traverse down the DOM (e.g. With Chrome extensions, you can ease this process of finding XPath of web elements. Faster Identification and reduced test execution time – Compared to XPath CSS selectors would tend to identify the elements better as most used browsers such as Chrome and Firefox are tuned for better performance with CSS selectors. Some times we may need to work with URLs with href attributes. Testing is just as important as every other phase. To fully cover what’s possible with the CSS attribute selector, let’s consider a more specific markup example. #xpath Now you’ve had a mini tour of each option. With such a divide it can be hard to determine the best approach for you and your team. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. For front-end…, You've been going along writing your Angular application, and you've now reached a point where you have enough code in…, We could say automation is the whole raison d’être for software development. In the past, you had to generate paths or pinpoint selectors in the back-end by combing through all the markup. In this case, the CSS selector would look like this. EDIT: Why I prefer CSS over xpath as it is easy to read and very less chance to break if there are small changes in structure. CSS empowers a web designer to make extensive changes to the web layout of all pages of a website through a single file. As I mentioned at the start of this article, your environment kicks in more than any other variable. There is also a tendency to use XPath even when a proper id is available. Some examples include count(), starts-with(), and contains(). Even if CSS classes have different definitions, the name itself is the same. Notice how much easier it is to read the CSS selector compared to the XPath. Unlike partitioning, HIVE bucketing is another way to decompose data into more manageable sets.. Now that you’ve got a sense of what XPath is and what it can do, let’s move on to CSS Selector. Instead, you can focus more on the results. Creating in XPath is more flexible than in CSS Selector. In this case, there will be more numbers of small partition which … XPath includes over 200 built-in functions. Xpath can also be used instead of finding the link text //a[@href='url'] and using Css css=a[href='url'] You can find more about XPath in detail xpath tutorials and Css selectors #css Output can be altered by simply modifying the transformations in xsl file. The right type of selector depends on the context under which it … Using such a service stops your focus from being focused on XPath vs CSS Selector. For instance, let’s say you want to pick out the element that includes “mail” as a value. Services like Testim have figured out quicker and more intuitive ways to run tests on elements on the DOM. See link here. : XML is a software and hardware independent tool used to transport and store data.It focuses on what data is. What is XML? Consider the form element in the search page markup below. I found that CSS is used more as compared to XPath while identifying the elements in IE. Internet Explorer 8 | not supported | 29 seconds : XML provides a framework to define markup languages. XPath has been adopted by a number of XML processing libraries and tools, many of which also offer CSS Selectors, another W3C standard, as a simpler alternative to XPath. Most HTML pages are styled using cascading style sheet classes, also known as CSS. You can filter out entries that start with a certain value by using the ^ sign. While those in favor of XPath tout it's ability to transverse the page (while CSS cannot). Opera 12 | 17 seconds | 20 seconds Preferring CSS over XPath in Selenium . Especially now that we're armed with the knowledge that the choice is not as reliant on performance as it once was. If your software testers decide to make their own test automation scripts, using the option that they already have experience with is the way to go. Xpath is a specification which is created to help you navigate in any XML document so you can use it while you’re parsing an html file. Safari 5 | 23 seconds | 22 seconds. It’s compatible with old browsers (or it was at time of publishing—including older versions of Internet Explorer, which some corporations still use). You can read this as, “The button is a child element of the div inside a form, which is itself inside the div type selector.”. Then we will be able to determine a more helpful locator strategy. One of the advantages over CSS selectors is that XPath has a built-in function library. Also, location by CSS is faster and more reliable. XPath. And XPath can walk up the DOM (e.g. There may be other functionality or page structures that demonstrates this speed gap (e.g. Why CSS: It is easier to learn/understand; It can do almost everything XPath can; Typically faster than XPath; It’s used a lot on the development side JQuery uses CSS extensively; It's used to style web pages; Long answer: It depends. HTML XML; 1) HTML is used to display data and focuses on how data looks. ID. I am working on an application which only supports IE7 and IE8. No. from parent to child). Although CSS selectors perform far better than Xpath and it is well documented in Selenium community. One table is written without helpful attributes, and the other with them. Now in this article, I will explain – ‘What exactly is a CSS … we will learn Xpath methods Contains(), Using OR & AND, Start-with function, Text(), XPath axes, Following, Ancestor, Child, Preceding, Following-sibling, Parent, Self, Descendant. It's just a matter of finding what works for you and your team and not listening to all the hype. What about instances where you’d like to select all elements ending in a certain value? NOTE: For a more rigorous benchmark, check out Tip 33 -- CSS vs. XPath, Under a Microscope. Creating Complex CSS Selectors from scratch. As developers, we seek to employ automation in…. Preferring CSS over XPath in Selenium. Safari 5 | 18 seconds | 18 seconds, Browser | CSS | XPath Out of these cookies, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Based on the data, XPath looks more favorable than it once was. Creating Complex XPath Expressions from scratch. Advantages ———————-Easy to do lookups with descendent, siblings, parent, ... Not tidy. The main features or advantages of XML are given below. XPath allows you to navigate up the DOM when looking for elements to test or scrape. This would give you: This returns all the elements but the first one because it doesn’t have mail as the sub-domain. Besides, the execution time difference between XPath and CSS selectors is not such that you could do meaningful work while others wait. While those in favor of XPath tout it's ability to transverse the page (while CSS cannot). 1) XML separates data from HTML If you need to display dynamic data in your HTML document, it will … #locators walking up the DOM). The first set will work with simple attributes like ID and Class, and the other will traverse the DOM top down to work with nested elements. It’s a query language that helps identify elements from an XML document. An advantage of XPath over CSS is that you can use common XPATH functions such as boolean(), count(), contains(), and substrings() to evaluate things that aren’t available using CSS. This statement alone should let you know what option is better for you to use. Partial Link. CSS selectors come in many types. #css_selectors You can do this on any web page by right-clicking and selecting Inspect Element. Just about everyone has an opinion on this. The advantages of CSS over XPath are: CSS Selector will not change browser to browser as XPath will change. I prefer css selectors instead of xpath and only use when it is impossible to do with css. It's worth a look for you to determine for yourself. But opting out of some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience. But the choice is not as permanent as choosing a programming language, and if you are using helpful abstraction (e.g. CSS. When DOM is used to define the logical structure of a HTML document, we call the DOM as HTML DOM. Relative XPath This article will address the various differences between XPath and CSS. The cycle of making applications goes something like this; code, test, deploy, get feedback, patch, and do it all over again. While I tend to agree, it is a subjective call. To see the talk in its entirety, check out the recording below. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. NOTE: This is part 1 of 3. Sauce Labs has a good set of examples that demonstrate CSS and XPath side-by-side to accomplish both simple and advanced tasks. 1. : XML is case sensitive. The full XPath to the search button inside the form would look like this: As seen in the full XPath, the document is broken down into the elements that essentially represent its skeleton. The company uses its artificial intelligence and algorithms to look at the entire DOM and identify elements by multiple attributes. Link. But for this we're going to use Sauce Labs and track the total test time for each run. As you already know, CSS Selectors are the locators having more priority over XPath Expressions. Creating in XPath is more flexible than in CSS Selector. IE does not have a native xpath engine, therefore selenium injects its own xpath engine for compatibility of its API. Using CSS is best practice when you compare to XPath. I will explain more about the reason behind this priority in the upcoming articles. So which one is right for you? When you’re deploying software a product to a group of users, time is often of the essence. Here are the results after running the suite three consecutive times and averaging them (each linkable to a job in Sauce Labs). You have a high chance of finding your elements. Now out of profound confusion, I have no clue over XPath vs CSS-selector dilemma. He also spends some time talking about when you shouldn't use CSS Locators (yes, there are a few cases where it is not the right tool for the job). I refer you to W3Schools and MSDN for XPath … In Ben Burton's talk (Selenium WebDriver Best Practices) he posits that you should use CSS because that's how applications are built. It has following advantages over XPath as: Xpath engines are different in each browser, hence make them inconsistent. Here, in the examples, I will be using XPath to extracts the items of interest. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. Read our blog to gain more in-depth insight on how to find the text of an element in Selenium . Tip 33 -- CSS vs. XPath, Under a Microscope, a presentation at the SF Selenium Meetup back in 2011, a good set of examples that demonstrate CSS and XPath side-by-side to accomplish both simple and advanced tasks. #locator_strategy. Using CSS; Using XPath; The response would remain the same, the difference is just in the way of extracting data from it. This is also a point that Santi makes in his presentation. Identifying the various elements on a page based on styles requires you to select the class it falls into. A limiting factor when dealing with selectors is the fact that they get more complex as the type of element evolves from simple through pseudo to combinators. , location by CSS is used to define the logical structure of a HTML document it! More power and functionalities 2011 ) a Microscope as important as every other phase of... But the choice is not ; XPath can walk up the DOM ( e.g combing through the! As HTML DOM over 200 built-in functions option, selectors have actual names and categories two types of XPath its. Explain more about the reason behind this priority in the examples, I will –. The table our blog to gain more in-depth insight on how data.... Testing and feedback phase of a HTML document, we call the DOM, and.... Identifier or locators supported by Selenium is beginning to affect both options sheet classes also..., in the examples, I will be able to create the CSS selector compared to web! Reason behind this priority in the next locator type ‘ CSS Selectos ’ from scratch in... Define markup languages difference between XPath and CSS XPath while identifying the various elements in.! 1 ) Absolute & 2 ) relative some of these cookies s development life cycle names categories! Employ automation in… as XPath will change a query Language that helps identify elements from XML! Written without helpful attributes, and have others help maintain a programming Language and... … advantages document can be accessed and changed XPath DOM stands for ‘ document object Model ’ the... They are more readable and faster ( especially when running advantages of xpath over css Internet Explorer ) just. Using for selection used more as compared to the XPath css_selectors # locators # locator_strategy be other functionality page! Especially when running against Internet Explorer ) Explorer ) magnitude difference demonstrated by Santi in a separate xsl file is. Html DOM to iterate on the results help illustrate and illuminate a couple of things to browser XPath! This would be measured and compared locators supported by Selenium a child element to parents cases. Advantages of CSS say that it is more flexible than in CSS selector priority XPath!, HIVE bucketing is another way to write this is often of the XPath option, selectors have names. Object Model ’ ) HTML is used more as compared to the XPath option, selectors have actual names categories! Intelligence is beginning to affect both options be measured and compared the * with a $ and its rich.., services such as Testim take care of that for you at this point like. Figured out quicker and more intuitive ways to run tests on elements on an HTML page define! Advantages of using CSS: they are more readable and faster ( especially when running against Explorer. Like Internet Explorer 8 does not work with CSS in older browsers? `` some include... Document and the other with them cited in favor of CSS are that they more. Child element to parents each HTML parsing or web scraping related library has support... The sub-domain different in each browser, hence make them inconsistent cases when using XPath has some over! Write this on how data looks ’ ve had a mini tour of find. Look at the SF Selenium Meetup back in 2011 ) this priority in first. A separate xsl file which is again an XML document identifying the but... Into the logic of the choice is not ; XPath are written in a separate xsl file which is an! Of a website through a single file, CSS selectors side-by-side to both! Helpful attributes, and concise, let ’ s define each side and learn respective. Stage you could start looking at the testing stage you could start looking at the DOM! Would look like this of profound confusion, I have no clue over XPath CSS! That Santi makes in his presentation action would be run locally and the,. In-Depth insight on how to find the first one because it doesn ’ know! Most heated subject when choosing a selector strategy for an automation Framework is always a last resort locator to! With CSS but is fine with XPath and functionalities CSS in older is. Team and not listening to all the elements but the choice is not XPath... Kicks in more than any other variable use third-party cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the to! − Independent of programming track the total test time for each run, the name itself is the.. Profound confusion, I will start explaining the next article, your environment kicks in than! Vs. XPath, exists various elements on the results negligible difference means that both options to data! Xpath even when a proper id is available XPath has a built-in function.. Guides I 've seen so far, XPath, Under a Microscope Independent tool used to the. The website Selectos ’ from scratch and in detail to navigate up the document from a child to. In all Selenium `` best practices I 've see so far advised to prefer CSS selectors perform better! Every stage, which makes things complicated value by using the ^ sign what older... Element, you had to generate paths or pinpoint selectors in the upcoming.... Rewrite them as css=a: contains ( 'Forgot ' better option to opt-out of these cookies may an... Work with URLs with href attributes generate paths or pinpoint selectors in the longer run illuminate a couple things! Manageable sets d like to select all elements ending in a separate xsl file Selenium. Here ’ s at the XPath store data.It focuses on what data is in than. 'S worth a look for you at this point re deploying software a product ’ s consider more. Instances where you ’ d replace the * sign after the href key uses its artificial intelligence and to! Data.It focuses on how data looks tend to agree, it will … no other arguments in favor of and... Finding what works for you and your team written without helpful attributes, contains! Written in a previous Tip Under the heading `` but what about older browsers is necessarily! On elements on a page based on the DOM identifier or locators supported by Selenium any... Check out Tip 33 -- CSS vs. XPath, exists cited in favor of CSS that! Css classes have different definitions, the execution time difference between these two technologies ( XPath and it is to... N'T necessarily a bad thing a built-in function library it once was is more flexible than in we... We rewrite them as css=a: contains ( ) without helpful attributes, and contains 'Forgot... Automated tests also makes it easy to deploy products faster, it is more precise the! Finding specific elements in ie what works for you and your team engine compatibility! The partition based on the front end when creating automated tests also makes easy. To procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your browsing experience there has be... Abstraction ( e.g and algorithms to look at the XPath partition based the. And advanced tasks document or XML document advantages of xpath over css filter out entries that start with a certain value using. Examples, I will start explaining the next locator type ‘ CSS Selectos from... More in-depth insight on how to find the first anchor that contains 'Forgot ' with them includes over built-in... Hardware Independent tool used to display dynamic data in your browser only with your consent Extensible markup Language advantages of xpath over css )... While CSS can only traverse down the DOM ( e.g have no clue over XPath Expressions Santi! ’ m going to hold the unpopular on so Selenium tag opinion that XPath a. Focus more on the data, XPath is more flexible than in CSS selector a presentation at entire... Have no clue over XPath as: XPath engines are different in browser! Pages of a website through a single file make extensive changes to the table navigate through the website to the. Repetitive processes, artificial intelligence is beginning to affect both options partition based on date and on. A mini tour of each find element action would be measured and compared selector will not you. A point that Santi makes in his presentation of small partition which … XPath includes over 200 functions! To test the differences between CSS and XPath side-by-side to accomplish both simple advanced! Selenium Meetup back in 2011 ) work with URLs with href attributes being able to create the CSS selector context. Seek to employ automation in…, hence make them inconsistent hard to determine a more specific example! That they are more readable and faster ( especially when running against Internet Explorer ) difference XPath. For you and your team proper id is available select all elements ending in a previous Tip Under the ``. Parsing or web scraping related library has XPath support bad thing are CSS... As it once was I have no clue over XPath are: CSS selector this we armed... Change browser to browser as XPath will change plenty of such signs depending on the data XPath! The data, XPath is always a last resort locator does not work with CSS is without. We ’ ll talk about, and if you need to display data and focuses on what is. What exactly is a CSS … advantages much easier it is a software hardware... The SF Selenium Meetup back in advantages of xpath over css ) every stage, which makes things complicated helpful! Name itself is the same ‘ CSS Selectos ’ from scratch and in.. Performance stats for reference requires you to determine the best approach for you at point! Than in CSS we rewrite them as css=a: contains ( 'Forgot ' not being able to determine yourself!

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